could a fresh uni grad complete a building application?

kashmir

Would someone who has just finished the 5 year architecture course (RMIT, Melb etc) and not done any IBL (industry based learning) have the necessary skills to complete a building application? Or would they need at least some IBL to garner enough on the job experience to complete such a document?

also, would someone who has completed (for example) the RMIT Building Design and Technology Diploma have these skills?

It would include items such as:

1 A plan of the land, drawn to a scale of not less than 1:500, showing the following:-
(a) the title boundaries, dimensions and directions, of the land;
(b) the position and dimensions of any easement which affects or runs with the land;
(c) the name and level of any street or way onto which the land abuts;
(d) the position of any existing building on the land and the purpose for which the building is, or is intended to be, used;
(e) the position and dimensions of the proposed building or building work on the land;
(f) the relationship of the proposed building or building work to the boundaries of the
land.

2 Complete drawings of any building work covered by the application, drawn to a scale of not less than 1:100, including dimensions showing the following:-
(a) the plan of each floor level;
(b) the use of each room area;
(c) entries and exits;
(d) the elevations and sections of the proposed building work;
(e) the position of any party wall or wall on a boundary of the land;
(f) the location of any structural member.

3 Construction details of the building work, drawn to a scale of not less than 1:50.

4 A bracing plan (based on the design wind speed) showing the proposed location and type of braces.

5 A written specification for schedule of the building work containing any other information required to show that the building work complies with these regulations.

6 Drawings showing, in relation to the levels of the adjacent streets, the ground levels of the land, the finished surface levels and levels of the floors of the building.

7 Plans required to be submitted with an application for a plumbing permit or Special Connection Permit (Septic Tank) under the Plumbing Regulations 1994.

8 Details of the foundation bearing pressure for which the footings have been designed; and if the footing design has been prepared in accordance with Australian Standard 2870 -Residential Slabs and Footings, a certificate of foundation classification signed by a practising professional engineer or practising engineering geologist.

9 If applicable to the type of construction then the following must also be provided:-
Drawings of the building work showing arrangements for:
(a) ventilation; and
(b) fire protection, including the fire water supply and the location of any hydrants and hose-reels.

10 Details of any proposed work for the protection of persons or property.

11 For all structural elements or systems -
(a) a complete set of structural drawings of any such elements or systems, including footing, floor and roof plans drawn to a scale of not less than 1:100; and
(b) drawings drawn to a scale of not less than 1:50 showing typical detailsof each type of element or system referred to in paragraph (a); and
(c) a written specification or schedule of the structural work containing any other information required to show that the structural work complies with these regulations.

12 Calculations for the structural members, mechanical engineering components or fire protection engineering components of the building work, or structural certificates in accordance with Building Regulation 8 for each discipline.

FBE Rocks

this is why im gonna be a design bitch in china and not have to do any og this shit. hahah

kashmir

anyone? I thought this would be a very simple question to answer, does the archi degree outfit you with the skills to submit a legally acceptible building application? :?:

The Falcon

I would say No, you would need a bit of experience/advice aside from Uni to get through this on your own, some further Consultants and a lot of time.

Are you going to get this 'taught' to you?, I doubt you will ever see anything of this at Uni unless you take a Tardis back to the 1950's.

You may get shown or stumble across some of the things here, but there are a few things that are on your list that are best left to Engineers, Surveyors, Geo consultants etc.
Even if your some kind of genius, you wouldnt have the insurance or authority to sign off on all these things on your own at this stage.

Yes, You Could do the Town Planning side of it and co-ordinate an Application using various consultants with you at the helm, but you still need someone to sign off on your construction plans who is an Architect or Registered Building Practitioner (Draughtsman, Architectural)

An Architect, Draughtsman or Engineer could help you with Construction details.

A lot of this sounds worse than it is. Some of these things are not always required.
This is where experience comes into it to sort the Wheat from the Chaff and not to blow your time or your Clients $ on 'advice' from Council Town Planning or Building Departments.

There is more than one way to skin a Cat and theres always a way around things.

kashmir

thanks for the answer.. so approx. how many years of "on the job" training would it take for a grad to complete one of these building application? I'm quite surprised they are not outfitted with these skills during their 5 year tenure at uni!!

I would have expected all the items in the above list to be covered in detail during the course.

The Falcon

I would say a year and maybe another year to sink in, depending on how motivated/inquisitive you are.
I guess its a complex thing and more like Medicine compared to Accounting. You cant walk straight out and operate on someone, but you could probably do their accounts straight off.

Its a good question, are there any courses that teach the basics? Anyone?

I expected to be able to 'build' when I finished the course. In retrospect, I should have asked more questions before I committed, however I doubt it would have changed anything had I known what it would be like. Maybe I would have been scared off?

Come to think of it I did seek out some advice early on from 2 very senior Uni staff who should have known better.
They didnt tell me a thing about what to expect, or advice on the course. Instead, as soon as I opened my Folio it turned into some sort of power trip for them to bag my work rather than encourage me.
What do think I said to myself? That right, Screw you 2 wankers.

Everyone has their own path to follow.

Neville K

The Falcon wrote:

I would say a year and maybe another year to sink in, depending on how motivated/inquisitive you are.
I guess its a complex thing and more like Medicine compared to Accounting. You cant walk straight out and operate on someone, but you could probably do their accounts straight off.

Its a good question, are there any courses that teach the basics? Anyone?

I expected to be able to 'build' when I finished the course. In retrospect, I should have asked more questions before I committed, however I doubt it would have changed anything had I known what it would be like. Maybe I would have been scared off?

Come to think of it I did seek out some advice early on from 2 very senior Uni staff who should have known better.
They didnt tell me a thing about what to expect, or advice on the course. Instead, as soon as I opened my Folio it turned into some sort of power trip for them to bag my work rather than encourage me.
What do think I said to myself? That right, Screw you 2 wankers.

Everyone has their own path to follow.

Great answer which hints of other issues students are shielded from. The last comment re bagging is simultaneously empowering and worrying....
more info please...

The Falcon

Neville, Where do you start?
Rather than go down the track of Uni/Lecturer Slagging, the broader issue, in terms of helpfull advice to Kashmir, is that no one source will give you all the skills or information that you need. If you understand that before you begin a 5 year course, then you will get through it a lot easier. No one source is right either, but dont take my word for it.

OK, specifically, I was slightly older than most when I started Architecture and I had experience in other design areas. My 'folio' of work at the time reflected this, interiors, furniture, drawings. I thought that I would get some opinions on what to expect from the course, if I could cut the mustard and, would I get in.

What I encountered was the Wizard of Oz syndrome. Naive enthusiastic person meeting crusty professional academic with a reputation/standing/attitude to uphold, cloaked in the curtain of University prestige.

I asked what the guy had built in his career(a normal question?) His partner (even crustier and worthless academic) almost choked with rage turned scarlet and pointed around the room and beyond,on his behalf, at their timber victorian house (with, admittedly, some nice 80's details) like that was proof enough of a career. Their reaction was like I'd just asked them if they had done anything usefull, ever?, before they started teaching.

Then it was "let's have a look at your folio..." and what I came to know as the 'crit' began.....Thankfully, when I did start these two had been given the boot.

habitus

See my reply to this post .... http://www.butterpaper.com/talk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1625

ari

kashmir, to get back to your original query, a graduate architect should be able to do the majority of what you've listed. some things will need to be handled by engineers, surveyors etc as has been pointed out alread, even if the designer was a registered architect. also, a graduate of a tafe drafting course would be in the same situation as a graduate of an architecture degree, neither are able to complete the same work as someone who is registered.

as The Falcon has noted, in order for your project to get a building permit, it will need to be signed off by either a registered architect or a registered building practitioner. these people are registered by a statutory authority (for example the ARBV). in the case of becoming an architect, a graduate of an accredited degree would need at least two years of work experience in an architectural firm of which they have kept a written log book record, they need to pass a written exam and also sit through an oral exam with several experienced practicing architects. in this, being an architectural graduate is similar to being a law graduate, you can look at the two years work experience as being broadly equivalent to the articles experience a law graduate needs to do before they are able to practice.

university/tafe cannot teach you everything unforunately. i asked a tech tutor of mine several years back why we had to do two years of work experience, why we couldn't just learn it all at uni. he said that a lot of the knowledge that was needed to practice could really only be gained through experience working on real projects. in this respect you could look at the two years of mandatory work experience as an apprenticeship of sorts. also, many of the regulations that you need to know to become a registered architect change so often and vary so much from state to state and country to country, that it is simply not practical to teach them at uni because most likely when you graduate the information will no longer be relevant. hence they spend more time teching us about structural issues than regulatory ones.

i very much disagree with the thread that seems to be running through some of this discussion that seems to be leaning towards dismissing architectural academics as useless because they don't build. certainly some of them are terribly rude and arrogant, but this is hardly a trait exclusive to them. the good ones provide the reflection and feedback that is so necessary to the profession and to the quality of the built environment as a whole. if we don't talk we'll never advance architecture.

good luck with your project kashmir.

Phil

Could they - In my experience most probably not

Should they be able to - Yes - but the Architectural education system is highly lacking in practical matters

Phil