Tertiary Education

_VamPy_

well im not an architecture student.....just browsing here
and im so shocked to see this topic...i never knew u guys have these sort of problems
mmmmmm i would think twice to take this course later haha

well goodluck with u people on watever u do and wish the best for ya

Ramya

Well, I couldnt agree more with all who say that we need to come up with something to save ourselves from heavy debts!!!

Well let me add a disclaimer here....please try and get the essense of what i am trying to say without childishly pointing out typo errors. As architects we can atleast transcend language boundaries.

After a grilling 5 year bachelors in India, I decided to work for a while, and finally decided that this was the age of specialisation and packed my bags for the US, unfortunately due to increase in the visa rejects as i happen to be from a 'third world developing nation'!!! i found myself in university of sydney. After a few pedantic lectures and 'time tested' methods of teaching, a few merit certificates and awards and a 40, 000 debt for a 2 year Masters study for a international student, i was left applying to about 100 jobs with no one reponding since i happen to have Indian education and no australian experience!!!! Well I thought this was some response after winning a string of awards at the university of sydney. Finally god had some mercy and i got into a firm which now pays me peanuts while my IT counterparts are minting money.

Please spare me the passion for architecture talks. What architecture are you talking about. Please come to india and i will show you how you can truly practise and design buildings. I see how they design buildings here, except a few firms and architects, most architects here are more worried about risk then actually designing a building and standing up for it. Risk sharing is a term i have learnt after coming to australia. This is not the day, age and place where like the fountainhead character you can blow your building up. MOst firms are only worried about saving their skin, so they hire like 1001 consultants so they they are not held liable for the designs they do. Ultimately do we actually design?? ....I dont think so, If we do not take responsibility for what we do.. soon there will be a day when we will become extinct as a profession. Gone are the days when we designed and built, Now we only design, we are not even project managers these days since clients and construction companies appoint them as well. we dont design entirely because we also have hundreds others who help us design....so what PASSION are you talking about.

Man you should be worried we are paid less because we are paid less because our services are not valued enough, our skills not specialised enough!!! Artists, musicians all are paid their due, they are entitled to royalty for their creations... have you ever heard of that for architects?????

And by the way let me tell you, we are neither artists, nor builders, nor visionaries, nor labourers. ask anyof these and they will not want to identify with us. Its time we redefine our profession and accept more responsibility so we then increase our worth and the seed for all this is definately our teachers and universities who have to catch these symptoms early on and steer the system towards creating a more value added profession.

law 333

hi

im from the uk and ive been in architecture since i left school back in 2000. i started work as an apprentice and did a 3 year part time national certificate in construction technology.

it looks like some of you have had bad experiance with training. i had a really bad time at college too. there was about 6 of us who worked in an office and attended college one day a week. we were pushed in to a class studying full time and they saw wednesdays when we were there as a 'fun day'! our tutor used to take us all to the pub for pool competitions or out for coffe or a walk around bath - all of which couldnt be futher away from architecture (well apart from the coffe!)........

i really didnt learn anything at college and have had to find the time at work or in my spare time.

i doubt its at every college but we were all really dissapointed at how we were treated while we were studying. especially as the part timers had to pay for the course which was about £750 ($1500) per term!!!
.

blackmatt

it seems to me that that the distinction between architeture and building is lost to many people. Although subtle the difference is fundamental. It is understanderable though as students ( of which i am one final year ) we feel increadably inept when we enter or even consider the possibility of the work force, which blame can be rightly be put on the institutions that provide us with the education and training.

This is perhaps the way in which the systems are set up. Instituitions are normally the cradle or the experimention and exploration of ideas, whereas industry is reality based application which results in a built product. I believe that the extreme ends that the two occupy are amplified by reducing the educational programe down to a continuous 5year exporation of ideas.

This system could quite easily be change and thus the transition and applicable knowledge to the industry be improved is by adopting the UK model ( and correct me if im wrong), whereby a rotational system is used. The first three years is spent in an institution the forth is spent in an architectural office working full time the next two is back in the insitution, then one more final year is spent in the the industry in a office and only affter the completion of those 7 years does one recieve a degree and registration.

it may seem longer but don't we already have to spend an equivalent amount of time to get registered, and not only that. Al the firms are aware of the system and normally budget for at least two or three students in their offices and just keep them rolling over as the go bak to study. students also find it easier as they are getting the industry knowledge that the require and thier creative deisres are also met. They also find it easier to enter the industry as the firm that they worked for while studying would normally hire them after they graduate

so although i understand the anguish and frustration that has been expressed of our education of not doing the the job one must understand what architecture is because when you do then you come to the realisation that the industry is the tool for implementing thoughts into a built form - Architecture!

blackmatt

I would like to add for all of those who think their friends have it better doing three year degrees and entering a work force that is willing to give them 40 to 50k starting pack, that its not true. the same opportunities are there for us, I am currently working 20 hrs a week in a architectural firm and im recieving a salary of 34k a year and im not a honours student or a high achieving one for that matter and the firm for which i have been working for has expressed a keen interest in keeping me and are willing to offer me 55k Plus a year. so the opportunites are there you just can't expect it to be handed to you by way of a peice of paper that says you have a degree in architecture.

Agent Smith

I was directed to this site by one of my ex students, now undertaking an architecture degree. I couldn't agree more with some of the disillusionment expressed in this forum thread by some of the students.
Remember 1 thing about University lecturers.
1. They do not have to be qualified teachers: Being a good architect, does not always guarantee a good communicator of knowledge or information. Having the ability to design buildings to does automatically mean the ability to design engaging curricula or project outcomes.

-also;
The gulf between the myth of the artist/ intellectual architect, (perpetuated at my university), and the reality of a hard business/ economic environment is vast. My experience as a student gave no preparation whatsoever for such a paradigm shift.

excellent thread

kashmir

Fantastic point... from my experience most of the media darling firms have old money backing them or some other support network in place prior to opening. Without naming names I can think of 4 Melbourne based firms (who get their fair share of media coverage) who had more than a helping hand to get started. Most of the top tier bosses are not necessarily great architects, they are great salesmen and networkers.

In the harsh business climate, ability to network and sell your ideas is a lot more important that the quality of your ideas (which are arbitrary anyway). If you are gifted with a silver tongue and a very likable personality you are in a much better position to have a successful career in architecture than if you are introverted.

nb. by "successful" I mean earning over 100k p/a not the average Australian wage of 50k.

FBE Rocks

Im going into my 5th year at UNSW and i can honestly there hasnt been a course where i got something valueble out of it. Its often not the ones i got the highest marks in either.

However i would say that alot has to do what electives you choose. Electives make up almost half of the degree so choose wisely.

our faculty also have join studio programs in europe and china. i was part of both and have made invauable contacts.

Im in shanghai right now working for a smallish american firm after a 6months internship at a 'giantnormous' local firm.

Your education is what you make of it.