Where is Australian mall with rail?

jaime

Can anyone tell me what Australian mall has a rail in it and any useful web sites?
Have you been there?
Is it successful?
I am designing a high density/mixed use suburban centre using some of the principles of transit villages and I heard there is an interesting mall somewhere in Australia with a rail that runs through it.
I am interested in how the circulation works with the mix of commuters and consumers and am hoping that the circulation helps define the form of the building.
I am anti internal strip malls and encourage the more broken up approach where small businesses have the opportunity to flourish. My current design has a central monumental form with the rail running through the centre and covered walkways radiating from it. I know personally one of the reasons I prefer visiting malls is that it is sheltered and easily accessable.
Does anyone have any suggestions or examples where I can have the more 'broken up' approach of building layout with the covered central station whithout jeapordising the comforts of the 'American' mall?

Anonymous

St Kilda kind of has a new shopping mall with residences over runnning parallel to the light rail. Is this what you mean?

Anonymous

Maybe you're thinking of Bondi Junction? Though there the malls are right next to rather than enclosing the rail.

Similarly Box Hill:
http://www.dse.vic.gov.au/dse/nrenpl.nsf/FID/-FF67B5E11BA2DDD7CA256D480003CF03?OpenDocument

Then there's Melbourne Central, where the city loop station is the anchor tenant really since the department store closed up.

Also there's the QVB labyrinth in Sydney which connects through to Town Hall station.

I'm a bit unclear on what the difference between an 'internal strip mall' and an 'american mall'. I guess I feel claustro, overheated, and manipulated in internal malls so tend to steer clear.

Not sure what you mean by 'broken up' but I wonder how that works with the shopping centre design gurus, who value malls by guaging how quickly they lull their customers into a stupor.

jaime

hi thanks for responding. I think I may have to delve a little deeper into what this person was trying to tell me, but the link you supplied and some of the other suggestions are very helpful.

I ment the same thing by american mall and internal strip mall. I cant stand the way retail is developing with huge big buildings going up with large expanses of concrete carparking that stand empty after hours and looks ugly. I also dont like how these malls don't allow for smaller retail and businesses to be a part of the scheme.

By breaking it up I was implying smaller buildings with mixed use like residential in top floors, businesses, etc... providing clear paths between the buildings that can be covered with awnings for wet weather and allowing people to discover new and exciting shops around the corner and not knowing the whole layout of the shopping experience as soon as one enters the main entrance. I have never been there but an example of more historical and cultural similarities would be of the bazaars. There is mystery and intrigue in the experience. There is allowance for shops to expand and change, for small and big shops and various activities.

From a financial view its probably not the wisest move but from an architectural view where it is the people who are important and not the wallets I believe this kind of development could be very inspirational. The larger cities will always have their big warehouse hardware stores and huge carparks but for a growing suburban centre which is where I am designing this development, I think putting a focus back on the consumers, commuters and general public could help recreate that community experience that is slowly dying.

P.S Yeah call me an idealist!!

peter_j

Quote from an article in Metropolis, looking at what the New Urbanists are doing to our shopping centres.

"Shopping malls--the old-fashioned enclosed variety that we gleefully built until late in the twentieth century--are losing their luster and occasionally being replaced by developments that resemble the very downtowns that the malls once killed off."
http://www.metropolismag.com/cda/story.php?artid=1296

It seems that some of the latest shopping centres have become Main Streets, with the difference being that their Main Streets are not public, and that they fake the incremental development over time that give public streets their spark. Interestingly they are faking tidy histories to give their streets authenticity:

"They took photos and studied [old tpwns], trying to isolate the details that add up to authenticity. Then the planning team spent four months hammering out a grid. And they invented a history for the downtown: "We actually storyboarded the thing out from 1854, when the first settlers came, all the way to the present day," Jones recalls. They imagined a ranch, a fruit-packing facility, and decade upon decade of banks and commercial buildings."

It's like they've played Sim City and built the result - minus the public buildings and housing of course.

jaime

Amusing article!
I personally don't believe we should try to reinvent the past, and I find it funny, the process of different architects designing whatever buildings they want in whatever historical style so that the city looks as if it has developed over time.

I does sound very sim city!

Urban design is a very personal and conflicting subject and I think that is what I love so much about it. When reading any work by the big urban designers you can see very relevant points in all of them, whichever view thay are taking.

I am interested in hearing peoples arguments as to town centres and which direction they should take.

peter_j

Seems that Auckland is having a few problems with Westfield-zilla. The NZ Herald reckons that AMP and Westfield reckon there are many more bucks to be earnt by building shocking big shopping centres around Auckland. They are such efficient main street killers that councils are suggesting the new malls include public facilities.

Councils and developers are doing their best to inject better urban design into the new megamalls. Sylvia Park and Albany are, in fact, billed as town centres. But are they?

Both are a departure from the enclosed, concrete-bunker malls such as St Lukes, which turn their backs to the neighbourhood. They will have features associated with town centres, such as community facilities, movie theatres, medical centres and restaurants.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?ObjectID=10123062

But these aren't town centres anymore than the American fakes I mentioned the other day, these are just carparks and shops, they're not built for people to linger or interact. Old style 'box' shopping centres do a much better job of that, I'm afraid.

A new Westfield centre in Albany? I thought that area had already been stuffed up - from appearances in 2003 there seemed to have been a mix up with the definitions of urban design and traffic engineering. This time round, the council appears to be busying itself decorating the stormwater lake in the middle while the two huge developers go hammers and tongs on either side.

http://www.albanycentre.com/
http://www.cornerstonegroup.co.nz/
http://www.northshorecity.govt.nz/have_your_say/albany_centre_project.htm

jaime

What do you think?
At the moment I am looking at designing a city 'hub' for Johnsonville in Wellington with a transit focus. It was the first line in New Zealand to become electric and at one stage was the main arterial for the lower north island, but not long after the government managed to purchace the rail line they closed the northern part of the track because the line between Johnsonville and Wellington was too windy and steep but ended up keeping this part of the line due to the people of Johnsonville protesting.

I am proposing a light-rail system to run through the site and extend at the Wellington end to connect to the hospital and eventually the airport, and extend to the north to link up to the Porirua interchange.

My design intentions for the buildings is to:
connect Johnsonville to the rest of Wellington
connect the buildings together, at the moment there are no physical or visual connections
connect the people to Johnsonville via view shafts and journey through the site

I am looking at transparent materials and how I can play on the idea of transparency by overlaying enough transparent materials that there is no transparency, etc... The train station will be a monumental building of sorts at the centre of the site and the people using the site will reach the centre via paths and stairs and ramps, where there will be views out to the rest of Johnsonville along the routes and the architecture itself will be unclear until one reaches the centre.

The building layouts and urban design principles, I think I have worked out, trying to focus on architecture and form now.

Im not too sure how to attach photos from my presonal computer.

jaime

see if this works:
its an aerial photo of the site
http://img152.echo.cx/img152/6128/aerialwithtext8mz.jpg

The Tip Top factory hasnt been there for ages. I believe it was about where the Warehouse and Woolworths is now. But it shows how much this area can be built up.

I have a panoramic photo of the site somewhere but will need to find it first!!