What am I worth?

b1_

What do you think I'm worth?

- I've done three years of an Architecture degree that I've dropped out of to work.
- 5 years experience in some big firms in Adelaide and Brisbane.
- Skills include CAD monkeyness, renderer, modeller, detailing - anything tech related.
- I believe I do have some design skills (don't we all), but am not expecting anyone to recognise this until I do some design work of my own ie buy land, design house.
- I was employed 1.5 years ago in my current job as a CAD monkey. modeller render, pack mule, and offered what I thought was a decent package at the time. My responsibilities have since expanded to doing the IT for the office and project management.

I have never been very pro-active with regard to my wage but I think I had better stop just accepting what's offered and give it a go or I'll never be able to afford that land for the house.

The APESMA rates for 2005 tell me I'm worth more than I'm getting but I've heard they're mostly optimistic.

I won't tell you want I'm on atm 'cause I don't want it to influence what you think I'm worth.

p.s I like my job and the people I work with - thus far in my career this is not the norm. The office I work in is fairly small at about 20ppl if that makes any difference, and it's in Brisbane.

peter_j

I'll reprint a post I made last June:

Salary survey
Here's a link to a PDF file of the Hays 2005 salary survey of the construction sector. Graduate architects are doing best in Brisbane ($40K - $45K) and worst in NZ ($26K - $33K). More experienced architects are earning $60K to $100K in Brisbane but only $45K to $60K in New Zealand, no higher than a 'drafter' there. Interesting that drafters in NZ get paid more than those in Brisbane. If you want big dollars then become a construction manager in Sydney, where your salary range will be $150K to $220K, or get into facilities management anywhere for up to $250K.
HAYS SALARY PDF
http://www.hays-hps.co.nz/salary/pdfs05/ConstructionProperty.pdf

I'm not that sure where the market is these days but I would have thought you would be getting mid to high 40s in Melbourne and a bit more in Brisbane. And add a bit more for the less ponderous/ rigorous practices.

luckybamboo

Hmmm,
That is the question for all graduates....as a recent graduate myself I've given it a lot of thought. I'm not going to give even an opinion on a salary figure because I think the issue is quite complex and individual.
I think that the question of what you are worth must be considered in the context of what your long-term goals are. Those first few jobs are always a balance of sacrificing valuable experience vs. money.

If (as seems to be the case) your goal is to make lots of money, invest in property and develop, I suppose it seems logical to try to make that money ASAP even if it means doing whatever makes the most money in the meanwhile.
On the other hand, some graduates chose to work with well-regarded architects on great projects (hopefully with some responsibility) for abysmal pay. They take the gamble that the experience gained combined with an impressive CV will pay off in the long term.
I'm inclined to think that a balance between the two is preferable. It's cheating yourself to accept after 5 years of uni a salary that is barely livable, I have heard of 2004 graduates with considerable work experience from being offered salaries beloww $30,000/annum and this is pretty appalling. If you have learnt anything from your degree you are worth more than that.
However I think that as a graduate is a mistake to focus too much on money (can't quite believe I'm saying it!) as there is valuable experience to be gained and a lot of learning to do. In the first years after uni graduates are inefficient, confused individuals and it's not unreasonable to expect employers to factor in inummerable hours of question time and training into a salary package. After all, you have to see the job you do as not only offering a financial but also an educational benefit.
While I'm talking about the employer's POV one thing I would ask you is why an employer would invest training in someone who has not finished the B.Arch as without it you can't register and therefore gain responsibility in a large company.
From my observations of the way architecture students are treated you basically have no leverage to demand training from your emloyer until you are a graduate, and then you need to register to get leverage for a pay rise. I don't know if you are familiar with the type of experience needed to register, but it's the kind of time-consuming experience an employer is only willing to give to a potential long-term employee.
There are a lot of architects out there who share your POV that it will all be so much better when they earn enough money to start their own practice, however I think it could be slightly misguided. The reason is this: sure we all have design skills, but it's far better in my opinion to fight for a position where you can apply and practice them prior to going into private practice than keep them in hibernation from third year until 30 or so. Design skills, like most skills else get better with practice.
If your goal is to design your own projects, then you need money and skills so surely a job that involves practicing the skils you have is a step along the way.
I really think that finishing the B.Arch is worthwhile in the long-term as it helps to prove to employers that you are serious, gives you an opportunity to further develop design skills, and gives you the basis for registration.
Whatever you decide, good luck, and remember that you're worth should not only be measured in money, but in time and opportunities....

cp

I'm a bit dubious of the whole salary sacrifice for experience thing. I would have trouble listing that many architects in Australia that I would be prepared to work for for less than my market value - their celebrity stautus certainly doesn't guarantee a good office. Recognisable names might be good on your CV, but in less prestigious firms you have a greater chance to be involved in your own projects, particularly in the more exciting and less conservative areas - like industrial stuff.

If you have 5 years of hard-core documentation and technical experience you shouldn't be selling yourself as a wanna-be architect. Check out what an experienced draftie is getting. Once you have a primary design development role within a team, the design side will naturally follow and no one will be asking whether you have a degree or not.

I would have thought you'd be looking at the 55K range (in Sydney) depending on how you sold yourself and what sort of a role you wanted. Also, have a look at your charge-out rate and title. If you're being charged out as a designer or technician at a fortune, perhaps you should start bargaining.

b1_

My charge out rate per hour is four times my hourly rate. Not sure if this is normal or not. My charge out rate title is Architectural Technician.

I would be happy with $55k. Even if it is a Sydney estimate, the Brisbane employment market is comparable. I may aim a little lower than this but it's around there. I think you're right about redefining my role as a drafty. I think I'm devaluing my worth thinking of myself as the eternal apprentice architect.

I am also dubious about salary sacrificing to work for celebrity architects. In my experience you don't gain anything that you wouldn't learn elsewhere, but they seem to expect "a little extra" out of you, which basically translates to, "from now on you're my slave, be grateful" ie lots of late nights and weekend work that is only good for screwing up your health. If they do actually take you under their wing all you're going to learn anyway is imitation. I'm of the opinion that if you're one of those born with some design aptitude, and you want to make a career as a designer, then you must find your design style; it's in you; no-one can teach it to you, and no-one else has the same style as you. The only way to bring it out is to do your own design projects. That's what your Architecture degree is for, lots of assignments that get you designing, over and over. The more design tasks you complete the closer you will be to knowing what you like, and how to create what you like. You'll be doing no designing as a shit-kicker student architect, and even less at a celebrity architects office where design is more tightly controlled by said celebrity architect.

cp wrote:

Once you have a primary design development role within a team, the design side will naturally follow and no one will be asking whether you have a degree or not.

I don't think my boss is too worried about whether I've got my degree or not, he just wants reliable and capable people. I actually mentioned my misgivings about not having my degree in my job interview and he just brushed it aside saying that the design head of one of our other offices has no degree, don't sweat it. I don't have a lot of respect for the architecture degree, but I can see it does have its benefits. I will most likely trudge back to uni at some stage, even if it's just to get back into some heavy design tasks again.

Thx for posting. If there's anyone else who wants to have a say feel free. There seems to be a cone of silence around salary discussion, especially at work. In a lot of cases the silence is required in your contract. It only helps those who want to keep your salary as low as possible, so post, and add to the information pool.


By the way, if you're just starting out. 5 years ago I started as a Student Architect on $14 and hour in a big firm in Adelaide. I had a good resume full of 3d models and nice looking designs - if you want a job your resume and how it looks is very important; in fact, in that first interview they didn't even look at my marks or my references, or anything in text, it was only the pictures they were interested in, and me and how I carried myself (now I have a slick looking website that I just add to occasionally - quick and easy, and definately appreciated by employers that love one line job applications that point to a website that says everything they need to know - you'll be getting calls within the hour of the email being sent!).

If you're still employed after two years ask for more! That's a mistake I made. I was too long on $14hr. Something like $17.50hr after two years should be about right, whether you've finished your degree or not. If you've picked up detailing skills by now you're worth a lot more. And believe in yourself. I think that's about all I can say. Hope it helps someone.