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'Good' Architecture.
Comments
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I think I can see what sods cup of coffee is peter.
coffee. not tea.
however this SS dude is like listening to a presbyterian priest.
give him a word limit on his posts! - my scroll bar finger is getting tired. -
<p>ss - you are quite right, i'm not qualified but do you have to be to take an interest? r u too good to correspond with someone on welfare?? i did study architecture for a few years (back in the day university was free) and seem to recall RV was a tad more engaging than GM to put it simply.</p>
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<p>Where can I buy tickets to your first crit SS? </p>
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<p>Oh sod it. Don't weep into your dole check on my account. Of course you can correspond and who told you you need my permission. Your probably more 'qualified' than me but I know stuff I am prepared to share and I get shirty when I am simply tackled to the ground for writing no more than is my internet right. Of course you may show an interest. but being shat on from on high is more about you having an interest in shitting on people than being interested in what they have to say.</p>
<p>I just note that since hairdresser took some advise about confining his comments to interested and inclusive discussion, as apposed to dissemballing, vitriolic and abusive conjecture and prejudice, that he has actually got a whole lot more interesting to read.</p>
<p>Even though he does tend to write in masonic snippets and other semi-secret codes, it is now a pleasure to find he has posted something, where as yours just got my back up the moment 'last post sod' appeared on the forum index. I kept finding I was getting ready for a short ranting of blatherous abuse that said more about your personality than it did about the topic. I know my personality shine through as well but really all you might suffer is a stiff middle finger according to hairshirt.</p>
<p>Hairshirt, thanks for the compliment. If you find yourself listening to what I have written then I must be getting through at last since you seem to be confessing that you actually use that scroll bar when reading what I write. What a cross to bear for a Stylist of the first order.</p>
<p>Kashmir Jumper, Thanks for the compliment, if that's what it was. I'll let you know when the lectures begin. My crits have been and gone for this round and I am now employed concept designing for an architect. Uni in a few years time perhaps.</p>
<p>And wye. Please don't think I dismiss you out of hand. I argue from a standpoint and I don't share your standpoint, but I think I can understand what you're saying quite clearly as I could not thankyou for the opportunity to put my case forward if you hadn't done so. I appreciate the beauty that you see in design as well as the way you see that beauty, even if I happen to see it in another way.</p> -
- its all a blur.
I did notice I didn't have to hold the finger down as long this time. -
so mr seasons you bombed out. only to join the average hacks who reside in the world of building design.
enjoy -
<p>ss - i wasn't asking for permission and I was shitting on your idea about design, not you, which is an important distinction - i have no doubt you are a wonderfull person simon. - there you go, another clear compliment.</p>
<p>wots so wrong with being offended by an idea and responding in a not to polite manner anyway? - as you said this is just internet chat.</p>
<p> </p> -
peter how can you shut this guy up? i agree with the proposition of a word limit its occasionally entertaining but generally pointless. the threads are becoming tedious and suprisingly similar and to be honest not much fun. there is discourse and there is bickering. i feel a python sketch coming on....'is this the forum for an argument?'
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<p>Miles & hairdresser - sorry no chance of a word limit, for a start the software doesn't allow it, it would chop posts dating back 7 years if it did, and length of post is not inversely related to quality as you seem to suggest. May I suggest the Page Down button as a much better way to scroll a page than the RSI method.</p>
<p>I also prefer to be a hands off moderator - let anarchy reign, aside from libel and some naughty words.</p>
<p>Threads seem to run out of gas after the first page, people forget what the topic is by then. Perhaps instead of getting into repetitive arguments around post #100 it would be better to start a new topic on something else completely... like what is the difference between coffee architecture and tea architecture?</p>
<p>Sod - pardon me for asking what you like in architecture.</p> -
Perhaps a thread of manifestoes... 200-300 words max (200 words inflammatory rhetoric, 100 words filler) as a thread?
The remaining threads can then get on with their purpose of the discussion of things... Such as why one building is green and not another.
Might I also add that even better than PgDn, a factotum, although increasingly hard to find of any decent quality, allows for hands-free scrolling amongst other duties. -
manfesto page. - with links to a quarantined SS on each referring to the business plan of mrs. murcutt the 2nd and her husband.
this morning melbourne's age did a vic job reporting the national awards as it would.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/fuss-over-winning-designs-20081030-5eow.html
article is interesting for the first paragraph?
J. wardle won "the" national award for public buildings.
then under are mentioned the actual named award winners M3 of Brisbane.
EF stomped in the SMH. Maybe her cynicism is warranted though its not articulate.
what is the problem with melbournes angular work?
Is it that Ben Van Berkel did it 20 years ago when all these same clowns were po mo peddlers. -
<p>not such a bad year for the Sir Zelman - either building would have been a worthy winner but i reckon the M3 building is more deserving by a fair margin. EF's report reads as sour as it is superficial, although she might have a point about JWA's work becoming repetitive - the Peter Wilson and Enric Miralles patternbooks are getting a little worn.</p>
<p>thankfully the judges had the rosalie gascoigne shipping containers to partly balance the lack of social equity and budgets in the programmes of the winning buildings- not that i want to diminish phooeys award in anyway.</p>
<p> </p> -
M3 by a fair margin alright.
EF is sour for sure. maybe inarticulate.
and your right she is superficial. but perhaps not the issue.
My reading of the angles rant, was that it was not about angles.
It was about poche. If she had gone there it might have been an interesting piece.
from where I stand both melbourne and sydney occupy exactly the same position re architecture
- that its representational in all aspects - including construction.
M3 (and the best of brisbane) don't look like are dealing with thick or thin poche.
If she'd concentrated on the winner of the SZC award she might have come up with a good story. -
@EF nothing like a good Sydney Melbourne spat, as a long term resident of both, can't but laugh. Incidentally the age 'Domain' had a strange small piece on Story Hall last week, Charles Jencks suggesting a while ago that it catapulted Australia to the forefront of world architecture, and general public consensus that it was "Australia's largest hair salon"... (couldn't find a web link sorry)
@w_y_e I'll go with De Stijl's fifth, bold claims under the title of "- 'square' + = R(subscript)4". Hear hear.
Jean Nouvel weighed in recently with a manifesto, slightly over the word limit but definitely reads like a manifesto should (further investigation required on his Louisiana). pdf download at http://www.architecture.org.au/
@JWA Mysteriously absent from any publicity photos of his Melbourne Grammar number is the elevation that faces into the school... It is by far the most interesting, so wonderfully awkward, gives me delight each time I tram down St Kilda Road. Will try to rectify the omission next time I go past.
@M3 Seem to be doing some interesting work.
@World Architecture Good to see women getting accolades on the world stage, and for what seems a sympathetic non iconic work. Will take a closer look (when time permits). -
M3 are doing some interesting work
But need to keep an eye on the role of the graphic designer
Looks wear off - hope they don't get burnt by the RMIT fire
'cause they are bloody nice blokes
What is even better about their award is that an eye was brought to the educational building
Why is it that only our private schools can afford architecture?
And our public schools (at least in Qld) D&C correctional facility type bunkers?
If I have a daughter she is going to Girls Grammar
Purely for architectural reasons -
<p>that building looks straight up swiss to me - thankfully i can't see any rmit influence</p>
<p>not sure about the idea of supporting architecture through private schools but if the goverment sector can't deliver its good to see semi public institutions buying into architectural / cultural crediabilty.</p> -
is just one of those dunny paper degrees VShaick hands out INFO
why shouldn't M3 get one same as the rest?
won't change their work.
only getting a job at RMIT would?
then they'd get a chance to do a shithouse building. -
<p>is that masters program still running?</p>
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Pretty sure it still is, also not sure it's necessarily such a bad thing, self indulgent possibly, but then one could argue that of any masters by project. Why not built projects as well as paper ones? The question is outside of academia what such a qualification is worth? The argument would seem to be the chance to learn through more considered critical reflection on previous projects. Back to the previous question, don't we all reflect on past projects?, or learn from our mistakes, in other words... Could be a few things, firstly the masters is, of course, more about the successes than the failures; useful for those whose work tends toward the academic in its justification ((read some of those I think Hairdresser alludes to) that is not to say I buy it all, some are good, some do shit buildings); Melbourne has a climate that cultivates an academic inclination in many small firms, with many of the practitioners involved in education (again not such bad things, in themselves) and academic accolades can be useful in such climates; just a nice bit of recognition for past projects.
Have to agree about the Swiss influence Sod, there's something about those curved concrete elements.
As a ex public schooler, I also believe the gov. could/should do more than additional demountables, in what used to be the playground. -
Why not support architecture in private schools?
I can't see why our next generation should be incarcerated in shite public school 'facilities'
Rather than settings that enable knowledge, identity and pride.
Haven't heard a whimper of a protest from any of the government architects about the issue - in the past decade
My beloved Qld is sometimes more Dumb Ass than Smart State
Although 2 Zelmans in a row keep us interested up here -
HD: The RMIT belly button masters run by Van Schaik is Very Shite - although a nice $$ spinner I am sure
Can't believe practices can compile some completed work models, write a narrative, engage a graphic designer and get a piece of paper claiming a Master of Architecture and believe it passes off as a piece of diligent research
Seems two practices here in Brisbane have been sucked into this burning eye of RMIT
I guess everyone needs dunnypaper though
Hope its double ply -
I saw Howard Raggatt's rMIT masters book many years ago.
was a serious piece of kit.
never seen anything since like it. but maybe someone has done one.
its what you make of it.
@ info - I see your point now I think.
maybe UQ should be constructing something.
seems a shame that it all ends up in the southern whirlpool.
looks to me that QLD cooked up its own currently impressive city culture - nothing to do with RMIT.
Last years Zelman was a doosy. that marble room with the cups in the cupboards is top shelf. Better than this years. but this years is ok. seen it and it measures up in the reality. better than photos.
I always find JWA the opposite. better in the photos! -
@info I support architecture in any school, private schools that invest in architecture should be commended. Some Vic state primary schools have got in on the act, Templestowe Park Primary got McBride Charles Ryan to redo their hall and got a, somewhat uncharacteristically un-angular, award winning, rather good bit of work.
Would be interesting to see the requirements of a standard MA and van Schaik MA in comparison. -
<p>HD -melbourne grammer is ok in the flesh - interiors are a little dissappointing in the detail resolution but the exterior is good - especially the brickwork</p>
<p>there are possibly a few questions to be asked re its ESD performance and its relationship with the existing campus buildings but for a building that relies heavily on its formal qualities it amounts to a crediable effort.</p>
<p>the st kilda road aspect is where the building seems to lock into its melbourne context - the off form concrete bunker is a not to subtle reference to the shrine - something of a suprise really given JWA seem to draw lines back to alto and more explicit architectural sources abroad rather than local buildings.</p>
<p>re masters - i agree - no reason why a candidate can't produce good work regardless of the institution. i think it was free program - who would pay for it? so it wasn't really a monety spinner.</p> -
Great to hear that there are some other kinds of movements in Victoria
What about NSW/TAS/SA/WA/NT - anyone out there?
If this was a medical issue - the AMA would be out there in the media working it
GA? AIA presidents? Any nuts out there?
Maybe the next generation will step up
RMIT Masters (hold your nose) - http://www.rmit.edu.au/browse;ID=h5lwztm1vkiy#space
Free education in Australia? Give me a break.
Universities are businesses - money comes in to Unis from two directions -
<p>Read your link info to RMIT /space.</p>
<p>The whole thing is completely based on an interlectualised (as apposed to intellectualised) assesment of spatial enviroment. In other words, triumph of the will with a lot of back patting and self aggradising waffle. I can even see a movie of the same name reeling away in the background.</p>
<p>This is exactly the sort of mental exercise that I impolitely term architectural fantasy and is politely given the name here of interdisciplinary research. The science that is brought to bare might gain some fruit but the rest is 'designed' merely to justify a very expensive naval gazing exercise that is itself intended to lend cachet to the fading and quickly dating 'discipline' of wonky texture. That is, survival at any cost of the mast to which RMIT has inconvienantly nailed its flag to.</p>
<p>Sorry if I think boring old science and functionalism have far more to offer the world in useful and beautiful low energy consumption buildings and that it would benefit humanity far more if the money was spent in that direction, but of course everyone loves Le Grand Phurphy, so I'll leave you to it.</p>
<p>The problem is, it'll stink as much as info suggests long after climate change makes the demands on resources practically and morally illegal. But so what when one has a few more mirrors to get polished.</p> -
@ sod.
my assessment of wardle. can't turn a corner. can't make a room unless its a cupboard. sample board elevations. thats the brief version. Sure he has evolved - from woodchuck de stile to shopping centre miralles - but its always been consistently rambling and garbled. JWA's work in queensland is ordinary. Petrol stations have more integrity.
I'd say same about aRM. Its a gulf between storey hall and the recital centre.
I wouldn't make it a criticism of RMIT. (wardle isn't RMIT trained and neither is Raggatt - take note SS) Latest AA re awards is instructive. Simeoni's work. Result - late 60s post and beam throwback. lame if its the other side of melbourne? Christian brothers mentality via melbourne university.
I would not position the problem in a school. Its out in the culture. Melbourne operates under the rule of taste - if there was intellectualism and a robust discussion it died off with the Half Time Club and Transition 15 years ago. -
mr seasons...we missed you. finished sharpening pencils, pouncing about and cleaning the old rotring for your lunch money and dog food? pay attention when hairdresser gives you a nostalgia lesson recounting the good old days of a packed room of dogs baying for the blood of an invited sap presenting their work. discourse? not sure. ahh where are they now? my attempt at poor poetry. where can they be? tugging along at ghd. the half baked club is certainly a faint shadow of itself with the pure bred hate diluted through the generations of sidekicks. agreed the remains of what was very good at transition passed to the next sub generation however the mongrel offered a chance and the flag of decency still flown on the other side of the ditch. too much money one might add.
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HD - melbourne grammer is a little more singular than their earlier tortured buildings and is better for it but it could do with more editing. 3 or 4 too many episodes for my liking. take most of your points on JWA - looks like a baby boomer driven practice and as such will never get over the need to fragment and overwork their designs. the sooner baby boomers start retiring to their beach houses the better.
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halftime and transition were closely linked to rmit - as far as i can tell the culture is not greatly worse off for their passing. the culture in melbourne was probably overrated in terms of general participation and achievement. half time was at least entertaining when it operated as a vehicle for a few notables to denegrate lesser architects - it was only of real interest to people who liked the idea of owning a 'culture' - it's not suprising it turned into the half arsed club. does it really still exist?
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